# Der Lutheraner_St. Louis Missouri_1850 09 03_S2
# AI translation — CHI Digital Archive (demonstration)

2

what is now to be done further. On the way proposed by you on Sunday it will not do. You asserted that the sworn societies are against God's Word, which is not the case, for they are not against God's Word.

I. That you neither know nor believe this last, dear friends, is to me a matter as well known as it is natural. You are in error about it; and for this very reason I did not send you away last Sunday from the blessings of the divine Word and of the holy ministry, but because I wished to draw you to us, I offered you instruction on the matter and promised you to speak, without passion and calmly, with all together and with each one in particular, about the condition of your souls. For that reason also I put at the end that question, whether the congregation was willing to let itself be instructed upon this point and to accept the instruction.

S. It was well, Pastor, that you did the thing as you did, and did not demand an answer at once: there would truly have been a scene in the church.

I. I am sorry to hear that. I know not wherewith in my words or in my manner of speaking I should have given occasion for uproar and scene. The general silence of the whole assembly seemed to me no proof that I had used any exasperating words, as indeed in fact I wished to exasperate no one.

P. The people are exceedingly embittered, they run about, say this and that, and as soon as you bring the matter in question up again next Sunday, it will certainly not pass off without great tumult, and to what purpose?

I. That I must heartily regret; I should not have expected it.

P. You will remember, Pastor, that I remarked to you at the very beginning that there must be no talk of secret societies, for almost all the members of our congregation are also members of those societies, and will certainly not suffer you to proceed against them.

I. That I heard well enough, but I had not yet the certainty of it thereby, and was rather obliged to doubt it strongly, since the congregation had called me, and that in due order, as a preacher of the pure Lutheran doctrine; to what other end than to learn and to come to know the saving truth of the divine Word? So I thought, and could not think otherwise. I was by no means prepared for this, that of the whole congregation not even a single one should seek to come to clearness on this point, that all together should already despise the instruction.

S. And what need is there of instruction? How can you, Pastor, assert that the secret societies are against God's Word?

I. That I can assert, dear friends, and can also prove very easily.

X. That we would like to hear.

I. Well then, you shall hear it this moment. You could not even enter a secret society without at the same time making yourselves guilty of a grievous sin.

S. How is that?

I. Tell me, was everything known to you, before your entrance into such a society, with which it has to do? or was something of it not known to you?

S. Not everything, but yet the chief matter; we knew the purpose which the secret societies pursue, and we knew that it was a good one. Or is it no good purpose, to support widows and orphans?

I. But the secrets, which are not made manifest, were these also known to you before your entrance?

S. By no means, else they would not be secrets. But what is there in that? And what sort of remarkable secrets are they! Nothing but some particular signs by which we know one another, so that no stranger can deceive and defraud us.

I. If I understand you rightly, then, you heard beforehand this and that about the secret societies, but you wished to convince yourselves?

S. Just so.

P. That is just what we wanted, to convince ourselves.

X. Of course, that is exactly what we wanted.

I. You knew, then, the whole matter of the secret societies not so surely that you could be convinced beforehand. Is it not so?

Is it not so? give me an answer—if I may ask.

S. Yes, it is so.

I. You confess, then, that before your entrance into secret societies you did not know what those secret things were, whether good or bad; you could not enter in the conviction that everything in them is good, for you did it in order to convince yourselves whether it were good or evil. You could therefore not take this step without doubt; it might possibly always be a reprehensible step. But do you know what the Apostle Paul says of such doing?

S. What then?

I. He that doubteth (whether it be, namely, good or evil), and doeth it nevertheless, is damned. Why? because it is not of faith. For whatsoever is not of faith is sin. Rom. 14, 23.

X. It is also said: Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

I. Can the Apostle mean by these words a proving where the proving is already sin, because it takes place in doubt and does not come of faith? Will St. Paul indeed recommend a sinful proving? Certainly not.

S. We wished for once to know what lay behind those secrets of the sworn societies, and behold, now we know it. And we have convinced ourselves that this whole matter is good and unobjectionable. Nothing in the world will be able to make us renounce the societies.

I. Yes, you have convinced yourselves, like our unhappy mother Eve in Paradise. She knew that she would commit sin if she should eat of the forbidden fruit; you also could know that what is done in doubt is sin. She lusted for it: you lusted for it. She would gladly have known: you would gladly have known. The serpent whispered to her: Eat, thou wilt become wise, if thou eatest, and God has not forbidden it; the devil whispered into your ears: you could always stay away again, if it were evil. Eve ate and knew; you ran to it and took the bite, and now you also know—and indeed, as you suppose, that it is a good thing, but experience will teach you, as well as poor mother Eve, that it was a deadly bite of the apple.

S. Pastor, that is nothing said.

I. Of course it is said in vain and for nothing, if it is not accepted, even if it were nothing but golden, noble, precious, saving words out of heaven. What one does not hear is said in vain.

S. You will not change us; we shall remain as and what we are.

I. So much the worse for you, not for me, if you not only will do sin, but also wilfully persist in it.

S. If you knew the societies, and how blamelessly and beautifully it goes on in them, you would truly judge otherwise.

I. It is true, I know little of these childish things, but the little that I do know is sufficient to make me shudder. For in those wretched trifles there is manifest after all a great power of evil.

S. Evil? Among us? I should like to know what that is supposed to be.

I. Well then, tell me, whom do you worship at your funeral ceremonies in the churchyards?

S. The Great Spirit.

I. How, then really the idol of the heathen Indians?

S. By no means is the Great Spirit whom we worship the idol of the Indians.

I. Which God is it, then? Where has a Christian people a god who has no other name than this: the Great Spirit?

S. Is it not written: God is a Spirit?

I. Certainly. But where has God commanded that one should know, name and call upon Him under the name "the Great Spirit"? Where is it written that one should ascribe to Him titles and names from the Indian idol, and worship Him in heathenish fashion? Why do you not name God by the name into which you were baptized, why do you not call upon the Triune God? Why the heathen god, the Great Spirit?

S. We do it merely for this reason, because there are also Jews, etc., in the societies, who do not believe in the Triune God.

I. Well, dear friends, that is excellent indeed, before you require of the Jew that he be converted to the Triune God, when he with