# Der Lutheraner_St. Louis Missouri_1854 01 31_S92
# AI translation — CHI Digital Archive (demonstration)

92

so, one thereby declares Luther himself a blasphemer; whereupon the speaker insisted on the word "actual" blasphemy. They replied: although the baptized who call themselves the Catholic Church had Christian elements among them, yet as an assembly, only on account of their contradiction against the Word of truth, they were not to be acknowledged as a Christian church; for it is written Ps. 26, 5: "I have hated the congregation of evil doers." Sup. Münchmeyer thereupon supplemented his address by several testimonies of orthodox theologians who speak for his first thesis, such as Chemnitz, Gerhard, Hollaz, Löhe. The discussion turned thereupon chiefly to the concept of the Church and divided in two directions. One party, among them Past. Besser, Grabau, etc., believed that the concept of the Church could not really be applied at all to the Catholic Church; another, Dr. Kahnis, Dr. Philippi, Dr. Lindner and others, denied this with the speaker. From the latter side it was remarked: that elements of truth are in the Catholic Church no one can deny. Luther himself had declared that baptism had been preserved pure in the Catholic Church. Therefore, because a church has taken elements of untruth into itself, it does not cease to be a church. One must distinguish church in a twofold sense of the word, first in the general sense, as in the N. Test., as the totality of those who believe in Christ,— the Lutheran Church is not the totality of those who believe in Christ, one cannot call it the Church, as little as one could call it the body of Christ— but also in the sense of an organized community, a particular church, and there one cannot dispute this name from the Catholic Church. Secondly, by the admission that there could be true Christians in the Roman Church, it is also admitted that it is a church. As regards Luther's utterances about the Roman Church, it was remarked that they were not to be imitated for this reason alone, that the time and circumstances are now different from what they were then. It was proposed to return to the first thesis of Sup. Münchmeyer and vote on it, whether it should be adopted or not. But since in this way the conference would presumably have split into two parts, they refrained, on motion of Pastor Besser, from voting, and resolved to continue the debate on the following day and meanwhile to take counsel with themselves before the Lord on this subject. This found all the more approval, since the time had elapsed and it was beginning to grow dark. Before the close of the conference, however, the newly added subject of discussion, already mentioned above, was brought up. For on entering the Aula printed theses or questions had been handed to the members of the conference, signed by the two American pastors present here, Grabau and v. Rohr, as delegates of the German Lutheran Synod of Buffalo. It was resolved to answer these questions on the following day, but in the evening to hold a sort of preliminary conference, in which only those members should take part who were already to some extent informed in this matter. With a prayer, which Pastor Besser offered, they now closed.

In the evening about 8 o'clock there was again a very numerous gathering in the Hotel de Prusse. While in a separate room the said preliminary conference on American conditions was held, Pastor Ahlfeld again conducted the discussion on the Mission broken off yesterday. After the singing of the hymn: "O Jesu Christe wahres Licht," etc., he prayed and then called on the second missionary Meischel to give communications about his experiences on the mission field. This he did in a fitting manner. He related that he had been trained at Basel and from there sent out to the Gold Coast among the Ashantees. He then described his arrival there and how he had been received with great kindness and reverence by a tribe and its king, yes, how they not only declared that they would gladly let him live among them, but also said: they would be his servants, his slaves, he should be their lord; how he further had built himself a house among them and begun divine service, which indeed had been very numerously attended, but for the attendance at which they had demanded at the end a recompense or payment. When this naturally did not happen, and their expectations of presents, etc., etc., were not fulfilled in general, the attendance at divine service diminished, and also the former kindness and friendliness, and when he wished to oppose their heathen abominations, their cruelty against their fellow men, a formal uproar arose against him, and he could save himself from this danger only by quite decided, energetic resistance, which also had the result that they again had respect for him and that he later also saw some fruits of his labor among them. In conclusion he showed the assembly two fetishes which he had brought along, pieces of light wood with some ornaments. One of them was furnished with a tail of hair and represented among them a kind of Cupid, in that those maidens among the Negroes who desire a husband fasten it behind on the back, so that everyone may at once recognize their desire from it. When the time had thus again passed most pleasantly, Pastor Ahlfeld gave a further awakening address to the assembly and closed as usual with singing and prayer.

On the 1st of Sept. the assembly began again in the Aula after 8 o'clock with prayer by Pastor Grabau. The President, Dr. Philippi, opened the discussion by proposing that Münchmeyer withdraw his theses, but that the assembly declare for the record that it saw in the address of Sup. M. a thankworthy contribution toward answering the Roman question that deeply moves the time, adding at the same time that it considered the position of the Confessions of our Church toward the Papacy well grounded and that this would again have to be asserted to the degree that the Roman Church advanced aggressively. Pastor Besser, not speaking against the content of this proposition, proposed the following thesis: "While we teach with the Confession of our Church that the Papacy is antichristian, we make just as little as our fathers any doubt that through the holy means of grace, whose powerful light even the papistical darkness has not been able to extinguish, children of God are born there unto salvation." In the discussion there appeared again the diverse conception of the Catholic Church already made manifest yesterday. Dr. Lindner, Jr., while acknowledging antichristian errors in the Roman Church, maintained that a church which stands on the Confession of the ancient Catholic Church, still keeps the Word of God and baptism inviolate, has a claim to the name Church. On the other hand Pastors Weicker and Besser maintained that Church is only the Lutheran Church. The latter, however, declared that our Church does not save, but Christ, that also outside the Lutheran communion true members of the body of Christ are found. Dr. Kahnis proposed to discuss the question of the concept of the Church in the coming year, but now to declare adherence to the address of Super. Münchmeyer in the manner indicated by Dr. Philippi. In order that no one might prejudice himself, however, it was thought proper to vote first on Pastor Besser's proposition and then, if it were adopted, to add it to the thesis of Dr. Philippi as a novum. This found approval, and so they now proceeded first to the vote on the thesis of Past. Besser. The same was adopted by a decided majority. Then came the vote on the proposition of Dr. Philippi. Here only slight modifications in the wording were proposed; instead of "to the degree, etc.," the words: "which position will be continually to be maintained as long as the Roman Church persists in its present character." Thus worded, they adopted this thesis together with the thesis of Pastor Besser as the second thesis, and signified this once more by a general rising. There prevailed in the assembly a general satisfaction and joy over the agreement nevertheless attained and reached after much contradiction, and the Prof.